My Response
May 21, 2010 by mrsgojigirl
Filed under Nourishment
Since I spent quite a bit of time on this response to a message on a forum this morning, I thought I’d share it with all of you.
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Wow, a lot happens in one day of posting on this thread! Holy moly!At least there are arguments on either side, and I have no intention of taking either side. I have been in both places before.
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Here’s a thought. If you’ve read any books by Stephen Buhner (Sacred Plant Medicine, Secret Teachings of Plants, and many more) – then you may already know this. Interestingly enough, some plants are more conscious than animals. In fact, they are more conscious than humans. What would you think about eating those plants? What would you think about destroying those plants or trees to plant crops of food?
I’ve heard a lot of dedicated vegans say that “I don’t eat anything dead on my plate”. Really? Can you honestly say that’s true? I’m not just talking about insects, nematodes, and microorganisms here. What about the animals who died so that you could have that food on your plate? Just because you don’t see it happen, or you don’t do it yourself, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.
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And, who decided that a chicken is more important than the microorganisms that live in our soil? We are all living…
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What about all of the species of animals (and plants) die every year and have been dying for thousands of years to create what is known as agriculture?
Damning rivers cause millions of fish to die all the time. Entire ecosystems are destroyed to plant Mono-Crops, which include thousands maybe even millions of different species of plants or animals – in just that one ecosystem.
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There are workers on our street as I write this – they are trimming trees from the road. While I understand that the intention is to keep the road safe, it hurts to feel those trees in pain. We got in their way, not the other way around.
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I know countless vegetarians and vegans who eat 100% imported food. Can anyone tell me why those actions are “saving the planet” or “better for the environment”? Does anyone have any idea how much fossil fuel is used to get just 1 truck of food from Central Valley, CA to NYC? I wonder how many people only 1 truck of food feeds…
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I was a vegetarian for 23 years (my lifespan up to that point), and a vegan for probably about 7 of those years (or so I thought). I can truthfully say that it did not work for me. I am still trying to recover from the damage done to my body.
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I also want to make clear that after this many years of eating no meat, I did not go out to the supermarket and just pick up a slab of meat. That to me, is not real food and cannot nourish me in any way.
I believe that factory farms should be outlawed, and the trees and plants who are mono-cropped/”factory farmed”, are just as miserable. Trees and plants thrive in an ecosystem, as do all forms of life – when they are fed (and feed each other 
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We eat only the purest food from a farm down the road or eggs from our own chickens. We eat meat from animals that are wild or that are grass-fed (their natural diet, as opposed to corn/soy), and live happy lives outside. We eat raw, unpasteurized dairy from animals that are grass-fed and live happy lives (not fed corn/soy, hormones, antibiotics, or any of that). I know they do, because the farmers let us come onto the field and play and visit with the animals. We let our chickens pastured and feast on insects for 12+ hours a day out in the sun, and those are the eggs that we eat. I eat imported vegetables sparingly, and instead try to eat what is in season and from local farmers. This year, we’ll be growing all of our vegetables.
However, I encourage every single person to try and see what works for you. Notice and keep track of what goes on inside and outside of your body.
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On the karma note, I truly believe that food should be consumed with great reverence, no matter what you’re eating. That is how our ancestors have eaten throughout their entire existence. Only in the last hundred years or so, people no longer see their food and where it comes from or harvest it themselves, so that reverence has been lost. I do not think that our hunter-gatherer ancestors were piling on the karma from eating the animals that they so graciously hunted.
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Life feeds life.
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Anywho, that’s my two cents.
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Please feel free to share any thoughts or comments. All are appreciated.
Agreed! I feel much more balanced and in my body than I did when I was a strict raw vegan. Getting all upset over raw and not raw and what I could eat and what I can’t eat. The energy I was putting out was negative from being so stressed out about food all of the time and I did import a lot of food. I still like to support companies that I feel have integrity and a resonation with myself such as USF, Surthrival products, yourself, etc…and at the same time for everyday nourishment, definately local and organic is the way for me.
Body image issues has been my personal hang up for awhile and while I was skinny on raw vegan, I still felt horrible emotionally about myself and my body, sort of like an eating disorder. Now, whether it be the incorporation of certain foods I had restricted myself from as a vegan or whether it be the natural evolvution of myself, my emotional feelings toward my body have much improved and I feel that it is because I have mentally let go of such rigid standards for my health.
For me, going with my intuition is key and yeah, it’s an ego slay to say that you are no longer feeling what you were so attached to before. It takes courage to open that to others so I have a lot of respect for people like yourself, Goji.
Great post!
Mel.
Hi Goji Girl, I am glad you have found out about the benefits of Red Meat? You know there also Spiritual Properties to Cannibalism? Many indigenous people swear by it? I think in order for in to have more of a spiritual effect, it is better to slaughter a baby calf in front of an alter of Satan and drink the blood instantly while it is
I am so tired of this Veggie religious dogma that does not see the “oneness” of everything. There is no difference in slicing the throat of a Dolphin as there is pulling a carrot out of the ground…I wish you well, and if you ever want to come out to visit me in July in California to Bohemian Grove, we have some great blood drinking ceremonies with major world leaders (as we need a rest from planning wars and poisoning the population now and then.)
http://www.ecologos.org/instinctotherapy.htm
This review is from: The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability
Keith does raise some valid points, for example, that all agriculture is environmentally destructive, and that even in the production of vegan foods, some animals die (due to habitat destruction, pollution, insecticides, etc.) However, the fact remains that a hunter-gatherer lifestyle could support only a small fraction of the people alive today–what does she propose happens to the rest? Agriculture is necessary, and raising plants takes up much less land (and other resources) than raising animals. (Keith incorrectly claims that either synthetic fertilizers or animal products are necessary to fertilize crops; she is evidently unaware of veganic (aka stock-free organic) agriculture.
I laughed out loud when I read Keith’s argument that killing a grain of rice is equivalent to killing a cow (so vegans are taking many more lives than meat-eaters). Can she really believe this? Can anyone?
Her nutrition section is appalling. She doesn’t just advocate eating meat, she believes it is healthiest to eat large quantities of meat and other kinds of animal fat. She alleges that the reams of scientific research showing the hazards of animal products can’t be trusted because the scientific journals are sponsored by corporate interests. (ALL of them? And their motivation for skewing studies in favour of vegan whole foods is….?) This doesn’t stop her from citing studies when she thinks they support her argument. She says that epidemiological studies are not to be trusted, yet she leans heavily on the work of Weston Price, comparing the health of peoples around the world. Based on this work, she claims that hunter-gatherers all have wonderful health and this is due only to their diet. What about a more physically active lifestyle? What about all the ill and disabled people who can’t survive as hunter-gatherers, but are able to survive thanks to the fruits of civilization?
Keith also assumes that her experiences as a vegan (chronic indigestion, amenorrhea, constant fatigue, etc.) are typical. Having been a vegan for many years, and knowing many other vegans, I know that they are not typical (and peer-reviewed research bears that out). There are vegans who eat unbalanced diets and develop problems for that reason; there are also many health problems that are unrelated to diet. Keith admits that she never discussed her diet with a doctor (who could have assessed if she really was suffering nutritional deficiencies) or a registered dietician (who could have assessed her diet and suggested changes if it was not adequate). Her belief that veganism caused her health problems is based on the recommendation of an alternative medicine practioner. Although she claims that she feels better on a meat-based diet, she also still has health problems, supposedly due to the “damage” done by her vegan diet. Maybe diet has nothing to do with her health problems at all?
Her recommendations are:
- don’t have children (I agree the human population is too high, but I think having one or two children is not unreasonable)
- don’t drive a car (a great idea, if you are able-bodied and not obliged to live in an area where other forms of transportation are not available)
- grow your own food
This last recommendation is especially surprising given her opposition to agriculture. Are millions of tiny back-yard farms really better for the environment than a few large efficiently run farms? She doesn’t explain how growing your own food is better than getting someone else to do it. Sure, if you already have a backyard, growing food is a better use than just leaving it as lawn, but what about all the people who currently live in aparment buildings? Does it really help the environment for all of them to move to the suburbs or countryside so they can become part-time farmers? And how are all these people living in the country supposed to get around without cars?
So while Keith does make some valid points, this book is rife with errors of fact (especially in the nutrition section), full of errors in logic and self-contradictions, and offers little in the way of practical advice for ameliorating the problems she discusses.
meat–me eat…
Raw milk, butter, curd etc…from grass fed happy cows are the best!!! Holy cows:0) so much spiritual benefit just from serving them…your future lives will bebenefited, may get a chance for high class saintly association to get you off the wheel of birth death disease old age.
everyone around us dies all the time, we all will at aome point.
meat–me eat…
you eat the holy cow, no matter how healthy and grass fed it is
you will be eaten in another life
one lifetime you will realize the damage it causes subtly
seed planted
I love what my spiritual teacher, the Master, Jeshua, says on this subject…
[…] If everything is comprised of adamantine particle’s which are universally exchanged, then there is a profound implication for the subject of diet and food.
As we opened the subject of physical nourishment, He reminded me that the most important factor is receiving whatever we eat with love.”Remember, love controls the adamantine particles. Always receive with love, for it is love which instructs the food on how to nourish your body. Bless the food and thank the givers and preparers of it. Your love will be attuned to the energy frequency your heart has set for your body and will properly instruct your body on how to use the nutrients. For better nutrition, strengthen your heart. A strong heart sets the body at a higher frequency, and establishes a lower resistance mode of energy utilization which is not only more efficient, but is also more able to process and manufacture vitamins and minerals.”
Apparently we have the innate ability to manufacture a great many more vitamins and minerals than we are currently doing. It is the lower frequency of our heart that is leaving us undersupplied with selfmade nutrients. I asked him about the chemical problems I was encountering with my own diet.”All of this will take care of itself when your energy frequency is high enough to manufacture what you need. Your body’s energy level is too low right now to provide everything for you without support and compensation. Directly receiving sunlight at sunrise or sunset will actually help increase your frequency levels. Whenever you do this, your body chemically responds, and stimulates the manufacture of certain nutrients your energy level is otherwise too low to produce. Chemical resonance equals energy frequencies, and vice versa. Actually, much of the value of hard mineral traces in your bodies is the energetic matrix generated by them. The sun can provide this directly, for it contains both the substance and the fire of every mineral available in your solar system.”
“Diet is relative in very many ways, for it supports the love which precedes and surrounds it. Different seasons, different ages, different health conditions, and different altitudes can affect the whole process. Nevertheless, as your heart grows stronger, it will lead you in this. Just as the birds know which seeds to eat, your heart will attract you to the food you need. Your heart will assist you in processing the food according to what your body needs to receive. Until greater understanding can come into this area, I would recommend that you use moderation in all things, and direct it with gratitude and love.”
I wanted to know, “Is it wrong to eat meat?”
“Eventually, mankind will eat little or no meat. However, that will come only when a stronger heart and greater refinement of physical energies can produce hormones and nutrients which cannot be manufactured by most people at this time. It is pointless to feel guilty for eating meat when you need it. Vegetarian ideals should not be prematurely enforced on people who are not ready for them. It is far more important that people awaken in their own hearts and incline in that direction as they look for greater health. In the meantime, you will benefit more by gratitude and appreciation for those who have bestowed the bounties of life on you. For I assure you, it is not by food that you are nourished, but by love. A humble meal that is beautifully prepared with love and shared in loving company is more nourishing than vegetarian cuisine eaten on the run. No combination matters if love is not the central ingredient. The major cause of overweight, malnutrition, and dietary disease is loveless meals from unloved plants and unloved animals, grown on an unloved Earth. There is no coincidence that such problems have increased in proportion to lifestyles of hasty and obsessive eating.”
“At this time, most people need some meat to be healthy, and it should never be eaten with a sense of guilt. In the presence of guilt, your love cannot direct and refine the process of nourishment. The food chain is a fact of life upon which all life forms have agreed for the duration of its necessity. Many have chosen that for their loving service. It is a fact to be accepted, to be honored, and never to be abused. In ancient times when man lived closer to the Earth and perceived the one spirit more clearly, this was better understood and more fully honored. Until a deeper understanding is rekindled, all that I can ask is for more kindness, gratitude, and moderation to be shown toward those who share their lives with you. In the western world, far too much meat is being consumed. It is overloading the body with electrical charge and suppressing sensitivity toward the one spirit and the magnetic attractions of the heart. There is no coincidence that excess consumption of meat is having its heaviest consequence in damage to the physical heart. Second to overconsumption, the other great offense against animals is the manner in which they are raised for slaughter in loveless quarters. This is unconscionable and is leaving a bitter legacy in the adamantine particles of nature. Moreover, the food resulting from it is depleted in every conceivable way.”
“The entire science of Kosher cooking which Moses taught was based on an understanding of such factors. For example, one of the rules of Kosher cooking is that veal should never be cooked with milk. Veal is the meat of a calf, and milk is the essence of its mother’s love. The substance of the mother’s life should never be combined with the slaughtered body of her child. It is a dishonoring of the love. That was the entire reason for it. All the laws of Kosher cooking have their roots in similar concepts of love and nourishment. Unfortunately, much of that wisdom has been lost and replaced with rigid formulas. As with much ancient wisdom, the structures remain and the elixir of truth has evaporated.”
“A true understanding of the relationship between food and love could revolutionize health. However, do not forget what I told you about sunlight; to watch the sun in the morning and the evening, because watching the sun can actually set your physical, etheric, and spiritual hearts into a harmonic resonance which will attract what you need and process what you have more perfectly. Doing this will improve your experience of the day, as well as your energy, your nutrition, and your sleep, for adamantine particles are the river of life connecting Heaven and Earth.” […]
A link to support the author:
http://www.christophervasey.ch/EN/articles/vegetarianism.html
Just the best explanation I have found.
Hi Camille! I pass by your blog occasionally via facebook and I wanted to tell you I enjoy what you write.
There are so many warring diet factions from veganism to the paleo (all meat) diet. Everybody thinks they’ve got the answer, whether it be for health or ethical or spiritual reasons. And yet I so rarely encounter really thoughtful ideas in these debates.
Very refreshing! Keep up the good work! Hope you’re well!
Love,
Sunny
well, if you really want to be healthy, i believe that veggan foods are the best .`-
Hi, you make a really good point. I’m still trying to figure out what is right for me. I definitley think that eating meat is natural and nessesary in most cases, but David Wolfe makes such a good point with his raw/superfood diet as well.
Thanks and Belssings
Derek